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@TechConnectify @feditips @claudius
I just read through the thread and I must say this divide in opinions is very interesting! If I may add one or two things, it is that:
“But that's how Twitter's Quality Filter worked and that's why I could exist there with 90K followers but being here with 30K followers is really starting to suck.”
“And please don't say this is a problem I need to solve. This is a culture issue the platform needs to work on”
I find it very ambivalent that on Twitter a “Quality Filter” could solve the platform's 'culture issue' but on Mastodon it's something the entire platform must change for. What about a “quality filter” on Mastodon? Doesn't need to be too complex, just a “show me only notifications created by people with xy followers” or “xy likes” etc. Something like that could easily be implemented. Not sure if that would solve the problem, it's at least a more approachable issue for me as a developer than “please change the culture of the platform” (which is something I have zero / very little control over).
“I would like to not see it. I would, in fact, like it to be shadowbanned - they can think their post is there, but nobody will see it”
I think what would be best is if you can decide whether you want to see it. Something that is, to a degree, already possible using filters, but I agree should be made a lot easier / possible at all for larger creators.
I mean, due to the decentralized nature of Mastodon it would be impossible to just “mute” / shadowban every user that expresses such sentiment (but isn't against any rules, except maybe harassment if expressed as extremely as in your example). At best you'd shadowban them from your end, which may not be what you want. Even if you run a large Mastodon server, if you shadowban an external user and they're not shadowbanned from their end, every other (external) user can still see their posts! I'm not trying to downplay your issue, as I do understand where it comes from, I'm just trying to explain why it would be very hard to implement something you wish for as Mastodon is structurally very different to Twitter.
Twitter didn't remove comments like that, you maybe had a filter to not show them or had a quality filter to only get notifications from important people / posts etc., but you can't tell me that every comment ever directed to you on Twitter with a similar anti-corporate or “leave the platform!” sentiment was shadowbanned? I mean, again, maybe you didn't see that comment, I just find it very wrong to start throwing around shadowbans only to make some large user accounts feel at home - the platform is still for everyone, and as long as the sentiment doesn't disobey the rules I couldn't shadowban it (if you run the platform, which I'd recommend for every large creator, you could set your own rules and do whatever you wish).
I find it very right, however, to change the software and add features specifically for large creators such as yourself in order for you to make you feel more at home - don't get me wrong here: It's completely reasonable and understandable why you would leave if Mastodon, or any Fediverse software, doesn't create features that are necessary for you to exist. Just like Twitter didn't have a quality filter since day one, Mastodon devs didn't make one because there were more pressing issues at the time.
Now is the time to focus on larger creators and accounts if we truly want Mastodon to become more mainstream. I whole heartedly agree with you on that, I just don't think your proposed solutions (“change the culture of Mastodon” or “shadowban every anti-YouTuber sentiment”) are the right steps forward, much rather I propose a similar quality filter for large creators! Which can be hidden in the settings somewhere, but should also pop up once you hit, e.g. 10,000 followers and give you the choice to activate it whilst explaining what it does.
Does this sound more like what you need?
@ErikUden @feditips @claudius I want to say two things in this reply. First, I don't know how I came across as saying I believe *any* anti-YouTuber sentiment should be shadowbanned. It's much less to do with the content of posts and more to do with behavior of the poster which comes through the content.
Admittedly that's a tricky problem to solve, but the quality filter on Twitter (in my experience anyway) managed this. Or else there was just much less crap on Twitter, which is hard to believe.
@ErikUden @feditips @claudius personally, what I need is a way for my replies and notifications to get easier to manage. Just checking in on this app now led to hundreds of notifications, all of them in order, and a good 10 or 20% of them really irritating.
Stacking them is of course going to be helpful, but also there needs to be some filtering. Bottom line, I want the filter to exist for everybody. Because nobody should need to have a shield of armor on just to look at their social media.
@ErikUden @feditips @claudius The reason why I said shadowban earlier is because, while having the filter prevent me from seeing annoying crap solves my problem, it doesn't preclude the people being annoying from getting engagement on their posts.
If people get engagement on prodding behavior, that's positive reinforcement.
What we really need here are some social tools for social problems. A bare metal feed like it exists now is not good enough.
@ErikUden @feditips @claudius it only works if you can maintain a small enough sphere here. Even if that's what you want, if somebody has a toot go viral they will encounter the same things that I am encountering.
This is not simply a request for large accounts, this is a request to make this platform more enjoyable and easier to use.
And frankly, I would hope people want large accounts here to make the fediverse interesting for all sorts of folks. Not just zealots.
@ErikUden @feditips @claudius so, that's the rub. Either tools have to exist for larger accounts to be here peacefully, or we won't be here.
And if that is truly what people want, you all can have whatever your version of fun is here. But I will have to be elsewhere.
And to repeat myself, I'm not here to leverage the platform. I'm not here trying to hijack it. I'm trying to share my thoughts, have fun, and connect with people. It's just not working for me.
@TechConnectify @ErikUden @feditips @claudius I think the best way to get such a feature would be to open an issue at https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues and describe in detail how you want the feature. Then it'll maybe be implemented in a similar fashion
@joshix @TechConnectify @ErikUden @feditips @claudius
I don't think it needs be that complicated in order to be effective and helpful.
Wrote a suggestion regarding #QualityFiltering here!
The trickiest part is getting language lists containing negative words/phrases for multiple languages. Starting with English and going from there.
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/12181#issuecomment-1817706437
@TechConnectify @ErikUden @feditips For what it's worth, I enjoy that you are here and I think you're adding to this platform. I also think you're not on here to self-promote. Overall: I think you're doing everything right.
@ErikUden @feditips @claudius and if you want a different perspective (not a big YouTuber account) on the same sorts of issues and why they are so grating, this very thoughtful post may help you to understand a little better
https://social.saria.fun/objects/b6059c07-36a2-411a-87b2-3eb87f184f18
@TechConnectify @TechConnectify I whole heartedly agree. I can't promise anything, of course, as I am the most irrelevant person when it comes to Mastodon development. Yet I will make it my task to talk to the right people when I begin working at the Mastodon gGmbH next year and make it one of my priorities to make Mastodon more large-user friendly (or, as you explain, even better in that regard for most users).
Quality filters easy to use for everyone, word-, phrase-, or topic-blocklists for when posts go accidentally viral, etc.
A better menu for personalizing notifications, synced across all clients, in order to filter out the important stuff.
This is an engineering problem, and even if I do not have the perfect solution ahead of me right now, with the right willpower it is a problem that can be fixed, without needing insane AI algorithms like Twitter or YouTube has.
2023 was the year where Mastodon and the Fediverse saw a surprising and unplanned incredible rise in popularity. 2024 has to be the year where it adapts and changes in order to progress to the next level and maintain a steady growth of free, open, and interoperable networks. That's the only way I see this work, too.
@TechConnectify I mean, last year Mastodon had what? 3 Million users? We're now at 14.5 million users with vastly the same software - of course things do not work anymore and features created for a niche community now need to be used by huge creators.
Thank you for your criticism and doing your part in the Fediverse project. If you don't mind I'd love to keep in contact so that once I find the time (most likely when my job begins, February 2024) I can start creating concepts and run them by creators such as yourself before official implementation begins. I see this as a great opportunity to have creators who know what they need explain such to developers like myself - or in other words: I do not know what you need because I do not have as many notifications as you do, also I've been on Mastodon for so long I might not be able to think outside the box here.