Recent searches
Search options
“The problem is, there’s a certain type of pedantry that has followed the internet through its various forms, especially in more technical channels, and it often creates a negative experience because it seems to be driven by ideology or disdain for people who don’t think the same way.” https://tedium.co/2023/11/21/mastodon-reply-guy-problem/
Curious to hear if others on here are experiencing what’s described in this piece. I enjoy most of the replies I get on here (though I never have time to respond to most of them, I like reading them)
I do think Mastodon could use more safety/audience limiting tools though, like what Ernie describes. Esp for larger-ish accounts on here who get a lot of replies, it would be nice to limit conversations on some posts. I would also love a real DM inbox on Mastodon! but that might be a pipe dream 
@taylorlorenz Yes, unfortunately.
I run up against a fair number of FOSS zealots from time to time. And a lot of folks who generally just... don't know when to hold their tongues.
Some of this is structural - replies listed in-order with no ability to signal affirmation and sort accordingly means a lot of the same things get said/asked again and again. That's annoying but easy to dismiss as clunkiness.
The zealots, though - especially when stuff gets boosted to a wider audience - are rough.
@TechConnectify @taylorlorenz but this is basically a client side problem, right? so Mastodon is open source software, ActivityPub is an open protocol. if there is enough (monetary) interest in filtering tools, i'm sure some developers can be found who would implement client-side filtering (be it AI or keyword-based, mastodon instance, ...) tools, e.g. as a browser extension, android/ios app, ... integration into the server code would be better, but is not strictly necessary.
@nanobot248 A client-side solution doesn't necessarily fix the other half of the problem, though. It would solve my problem, sure, if I didn't have to see so many notifications or so much... drivel, but to be honest I think we need some mechanisms for *the crowd* to help moderate discussion and signal good vs. bad behavior.
The decentralized nature here makes that difficult, obviously - but even just showing that 20 people found a question interesting might help it not get asked so many times.
@nanobot248 Main problem there, though, is that that would be introducing
*thunderclap*
AN ALGORITHM
and folks within/who believe in this project are so allergic to that word that even something so simple as "display replies in order of popularity" is deemed antithetical to the very nature of Mastodon.
Little do they realize they don't speak for all - they're just very loud about it.
@TechConnectify@mas.to @nanobot248@mtd.sysblog.at seems to me like that would be a good, opt-in kind of feature.
Off by default but if you want your replies filtered by an algorithm - sure. Turn it on. Wouldn't affect anybody else's profile but your own.
There's already a similar concept for users opting in to full text search
@johnny @nanobot248 Right - my worry there, though, is that keeping everything so hyper-customizable is going to dig the "everything here works differently depending on instance/client/software/version" hole even deeper.
Some core features need to be implemented across the board, and imo reply sorting/filtering is going to HAVE to happen unilaterally if this platform is to attract larger users.
Otherwise it's just some loosely-tied-together mailing lists and not social at all.
@johnny @nanobot248 (but then we're back to the whole "what does this place even want to be?" conundrum that tortures me somewhat so... let's not go there)
@TechConnectify @johnny @nanobot248 I've had a few days to think since we last spoke on this (sorry about that misunderstanding) and it reminds me of Google Plus, which illustrated to me:
YouTube comments or article comments are not a public square, they're somebody's place. Commenters are guests, the channel or article-writer is the host. The host is providing entertainment but they're also in charge.
Maybe Mastodon needs an option to be able to throw people out of a thread?
@Pxtl @TechConnectify @johnny @nanobot248
The host is really the person who owns the platform. They decide who stays or goes.
Commercial platforms give special treatment to high-follower accounts for free because those accounts attract the little guys (who click ads). Without a profit incentive, most Mastodon instances treat all users equal regardless of follower count. This means hosting a high-follower user actually means more unpaid labor from the admin.
@JustinH @TechConnectify @johnny @nanobot248 which is why it makes sense to offer ways for people, particularly high follower count accounts, to curate the replies to their posts. Without the money flowing from ads funding 3rd-world moderators and without algorithms managing replies, Mastodon will need much more personal moderation tools.
@Pxtl @TechConnectify @johnny @nanobot248
Specialized tools for high-follower accounts sounds useful, but I just don't see a feature that only benefits .001% of users getting made anytime soon unless those high-follower users put up a bounty or something, which I also don't see happening because they're used to the treatment offered by commercial platforms.
@JustinH@twit.social @Pxtl@mastodon.social @TechConnectify@mas.to @nanobot248@mtd.sysblog.at
That could be a business idea. Create a service, connect accounts, run all the algorithms you want, show users the important stuff, let them reply right from the app, charge a fee
@TechConnectify @johnny @nanobot248
It’s going to be what everything else in the universe is - constantly in flux.
@TechConnectify @johnny Mastodon (or the Fediverse as a whole) still needs to find itself.
Regarding "the algorithm" i think it would be nice to have server-side support for metadata (message popularity, up-/downvoting, ...) and client-side support for using that metadata to sort and filter.
but it should be optional (on by default?).
the real problem with the algorithm on other social networks was that it strongly preferred polarizing content.
@TechConnectify@mas.to @nanobot248@mtd.sysblog.at see, I see it as baby steps.
Bring in something with an algorithm, let people opt-in, when it's wildly successful it becomes standard
The allergy starts with not even acknowledging that there is an algorithm! If we can't get that far, then we can't have a conversation about the pro/con of the thing that shall-not-be-named.
Favorites first makes sense to me
A problem with algorithms is that they're evaluated by the same people that implement them. A business enshittifies. Open source tends to a developer's needs first. You need strong community builders to transcend the natural parochial defaults.
@GregMartyn @TechConnectify @nanobot248
I think we would need algorithms to be implemented as plug-ins. Something that you (or a server administrator) would install to help a user weight their feed to their needs. And something slightly more democratic than having to hack in mastodon server code.
@michaelcoyote @TechConnectify @nanobot248
I love having those little escape hatches that let you make something your own.
That said, defaults matter. Right now they reward reply speed over interestingness. That will be what defines Mastodon to all users unless they all individually bother to go out of their way to change it instead of just giving up.
@GregMartyn @TechConnectify @nanobot248
I'm all for having good defaults.
It would probably be good to have an "out of the box" set of filters and a way of weighting some posts more or less.
While I think the "default" of nothing works ok if you're an account with a few hundred followers, and you're following a few hundred people, it's only OK because the bare for many other social media sites has been on the floor, and I'd always like to see a safer place for people.
@GregMartyn @TechConnectify @nanobot248
Black folks have had a hard time here as well, especially people with larger accounts, and so I'm wondering if this could improve the experience many folks have had here. Though I'm not really the person to ask.
Finally, when I say plugins, I'm thinking like the Firefox or Chrome browser plugins, which have a plugin "store" Sure you can write your own, but most won't and wouldn't need to.
@TechConnectify @nanobot248 they can't stop you from running your own client w/ an algorithm so be a rebel; Mastodon has a much more efficient updating model than RSS so it is more practical than ever to have a local database of your network neighborhood
Essentially there already is an algorithm here - top posts which page this post appears on.
At least those shitbag K-Pop fans haven’t moved here en masse yet.
Yep, and "getting loud" doesn't even work in FOSS world. Features only get added when someone out there chooses to build it.
done differently You said one issue most have with free web hosting. Notifications.
My advice.. Turn. Notifications. ESPECIALLY AUDIO ONES. FSCKING OFF. SEND IT TO NOPPPEEEE LAND. NO AUDIO NOTIFICATIONS.
Sorry for shouting. 
<-- how the above needs to be NOT notified. This changes the feedback loop to.. follow this... Your. Time. Not. Notifications. Time. Period.
This is the Way™----> imo. 
@TechConnectify@mas.to @taylorlorenz@mastodon.social The FOSS cultists on the Fediverse are definitely annoying. I haven't had many experiences with them here on Mastodon (which I chalk up to my instance being largely used for shitposting and memes), but I do run into them a lot on Lemmy (another Fediverse platform), and they can be truly insufferable sometimes.
There was a Lemmy thread a while back where some guy was asking for help setting up a new computer for his tech-illiterate mother, and he specified at the top of his post that Linux was not an option for his situation, and that he needed Windows. To no surprise, the top replies were advice on how to install Linux with a Windows-like skin, completely disregarding the OP's actual request.
Whether they intend to or not, the FOSS crowd ends up projecting this notion of "If you don't know how to code your entire operating system from scratch, you shouldn't use a computer at all". I'm sure that's not what they really mean, but that's how it feels whenever they try to give advice to anybody.
The idea of FOSS is great, and one that I generally support. However FOSS is not a solution for every single use-case, a fact which many vocal FOSS advocates refuse to understand.
@Chozo @TechConnectify @taylorlorenz
The problem here is that if they *did*, then we would make no progress. Making FOSS work for more and more people requires a fair degree of stubbornness. Otherwise, everyone would give up.
@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org @TechConnectify@mas.to @taylorlorenz@mastodon.social I don't disagree with the sentiment.
But, until we reach the point where FOSS can fill in certain voids, it's annoying to make a post saying "I'd like recommendations for XYZ software problem I'm having", and all the solutions are "Hey have you tried side-loading this FOSS app store onto your device so you can download an app that has 1/4 of the features you require and looks like an Excel document that you have to program by yourself and also requires you to have a BS in comp-sci to operate???"
I know that's not how all FOSS advocates behave, but that's the impression that I know I've gotten from a lot of the more vocal ones.
@Chozo @TechConnectify @taylorlorenz I love linux and I set up my parents computer with MacOS. Just because of the way less maintenance it needs compared to the nightmare of Windows they previously had. I even did not set up a way of remote access. MacOS just works.
It does not work for me (yet), still running linux.
@TechConnectify I’m curious: do you think a “no one can reply” or “only existing followers can reply” option would help at all?
People could still @ mention, but when people know a post is likelier than usual to attract the jerks, maybe it would help?
Sadly I don’t expect the new default client “be nice” pop up will do much.
@foobarsoft @TechConnectify only people I FOLLOW is what's needed.
The way Mastodon is set up to give followers all the power is Stalker Bait. I shouldn't have to have Follower Request on, for example, to prevent people I don't follow DM-ing me.
@TechConnectify @taylorlorenz Trunks App allows you to sort replies by either most liked, most replied, or chronological. So hopefully something that can be improved upon. It's very helpful in looking at big account replies.