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I really hope y'all understand I'm trying to improve the experience here and in so doing make this a healthier and more attractive place to be.
I didn't want to be a squeaky wheel but you know what they say...
@TechConnectify have you filed any of this in the GitHub repo? Talked to Gargron about it?
@Pxtl @TechConnectify Still waiting on that call back from Mastodon Systems Incorporated customer service dept.
@JustinH @Pxtl okay, and I'm sorry for bringing the example I'm going to bring up, and feel free to feel less of me as a person.
When I would tag YouTube creators on Twitter and tell them I was having a problem, you know what would happen a lot? The human person tweeting at me would tell me "I appreciate your feedback! Please go fill out this form and make that feedback again."
And you know what this felt like? Passing off the problem to someone else.
@JustinH @Pxtl if you are going to insist that I need to file a GitHub repo or whatever the heck I'm supposed to do in order to get my problems believed or listened to, it's pretty maddening.
There are people listening to me, I am talking to you now, there are many, many other people who are seeing many, many other people express these problems.
I would hope that would be enough to get some balls rolling. Otherwise, this is maddeningly bureaucratic.
@JustinH @Pxtl let me put it another way. I don't use GitHub. I don't even really know much about what it is! I ran into it at one point in the past working on some 3D printing thing and from there it has been in my brain as a weird fiddly thing for nerds.
So. You are asking me to go into a space that I'm not familiar with and, with no agency at all, submit some form so that hopefully somebody somewhere else will understand what I'm saying and take action.
Do you understand the friction here?
@TechConnectify@mas.to @JustinH@twit.social @Pxtl@mastodon.social That's where the developers prefer to get their feedback. You want to work with the developers or against them?
@ignaloidas @Pxtl @JustinH I'd like developers to respect users a little more, frankly.
Frankly, it's astounding to me that people don't understand what this feels like.
@TechConnectify@mas.to @Pxtl@mastodon.social @JustinH@twit.social And the developers would like their users to respect them more.
None of the fediverse projects have enough money to have a "social media manager" that would go looking over the medias for complaints about the software and file them into the internal developer tracking systems. The projects have maybe 3 paid positions at most, they simply cannot afford that. They ask the users to, instead, file it into the tracking system themselves. In exchange, you get transparency to the process.
Of course, if you're umwilling to do that, you could just pay for somebody to do that for you. Or complain publicly but with clout, I guess that seems to work too.
@TechConnectify I could never get the hang of GitHub. I'm not a programmer, why should I have to use it to file an issue with something I use? An email, a standard web- form, anything other than 'bugtrack this' and 'gitpull that', count me in. I don't want to play with 'your assets' or 'download your code' I just... Want to file a problem. Like an enduser should be able to. I'm a musician, not a programmer. Why must I be one to file a problem with something I use?
@FreakyFwoof @TechConnectify Github has a complicated layout for this simple thing. Open the link to the repo for the thing you've got an issue with, ignore everything except the "Issues" tab. Click the "Issues" Tab: Search for your issue in different wordings to figure out if there is already an open issue. If not click new Issue. Fill out the form.
@9eurosyltbesucher @FreakyFwoof @TechConnectify Nevermind the fact that it's incredibly difficult to use for people with a very limited command of English. Not letting the speakers of other languages file bugs, participate in discussions about the direction of your project and request support is inherently discriminatory. Figuring out how to do this correctly is the unsexy part of open source development and nobody wants to do it, which is yet one more reason why being profit-driven instead of developer-driven often causes you to make better, more user-friendly software.
@miki @9eurosyltbesucher @FreakyFwoof @TechConnectify Often? My experience with pretty much all profit-driven software is that it is even less responsive. Not excusing the lack of responsiveness of other projects though.
@miki @FreakyFwoof @TechConnectify how would you suggest this should work otherwise, if you want to file bugs in other languages the devs also needs to speak those languages to understand your issue.
Just use deepl and github issues. Nobody will rip your head off.
Other option would be emails and google docs which just gets messy at scale and things get forgotten.
@9eurosyltbesucher @FreakyFwoof @TechConnectify At least use a service that offers its UI in more than one language (Discourse perhaps), perhaps with some kind of automatic translation engine. Per-language forums for support and volunteers translating back confirmed bug reports would also go a long way.
@miki @FreakyFwoof @TechConnectify I get your point somewhat but every modern browser has site wide translation built in. Forums are not a great way to handle bug tickers. You'll know if you ever tried to navigate XDA Developers for Android custom roms back in the hayday of them.
@9eurosyltbesucher This is quite an oversimplification. As well as having a GitHub account, these days you may also have to:
* choose an issue template;
* confirm (or lie about the fact) that you've followed a bunch of prerequisite steps, like searching for similar issues which is also not that easy to do;
* provide technical information/specifications, usually without advice on how to gather them;
* familiarise yourself with variations on the "new issue" form now that repos can choose to turn their templates into custom ones;
* justify/debate the priority of what you're reporting;
* determine which follow-up questions/comments to respond to and which to ignore, because much judgement will come from the "peanut gallery";
* share your issue with your friends (who may also not have GitHub accounts) so they can give it a thumbs-up and demonstrate its importance;
* ... and the list goes on.
All this so that you can receive endless bikeshedding that you don't understand, radio silence, useless prompts for updates, and ultimately a "stale" notification from a bot. GitHub's modern features for issue management are fundamentally skewed towards maintainers and contributors, rather than reporters.
@jscholes @FreakyFwoof @TechConnectify I have dealt with all those reporting issues before. But just sending surveys into the void (a random support email that nobody reads) doesn't fix anything either.
The problem in this case is not github but rather the people responding to the tickets (which are the same one that brought you the hurdles on reporting).
This whole debacle is just not easy to solve, because if the project gets big enough, you are going to have a bad time managing issue reports.
@FreakyFwoof @TechConnectify I use GitHub regularly and I despise filing issues. The interface feels borderline hostile as a screen reader user. Don't even get me started on reviewing pull requests with their web editor thing