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52% of Ukrainians favour "making some territorial concessions" to end the war, while only 38% oppose it. There is not a majority for continuing the war in a single oblast.
It is at least time to stop pretending that NATO's objective is to "help" Ukraine.
Also, important to keep in mind that the war could've been over two months in if the west did not intervene. Without western "help", Ukraine would have been in a vastly better situation than it finds itself in today.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx
@yogthos Could you join the dots between those three paragraphs? I'm not seeing an obvious link between them.
@zebulonmysterioso the obvious link between them is that the west is cynically using Ukraine as a proxy to fight Russia with no regard for the interests of the actual people living in Ukraine.
@yogthos OK, that's a fair statement. How, then, does either that or the Ukrainian desire for and end to it link to your suggestion that the war would have been over within two months without the west intervening?
@zebulonmysterioso it's not my suggestions, it's what the Ukrainian negotiators in Astana said, what Aristovich said, and what Nuland recently admitted in an interview.
The west intervened to stop the peace negotiations because the west didn't like the terms. Yet, after two years of war, it's pretty clear that the situation for Ukraine is far worse in every respect, and Ukraine will be forced to accept far worse terms than anything that was on the table then.
@yogthos I'll have to do some reading about that 'cos I what I remember it from the time was Russia insisting on Ukraine dropping their interest in NATO and Zelenskyy drawing a line at that and, later, disagreeing with Kissinger.
I'm not sure I would trust a former US diplomat any more than I'd trust a Russian one, TBH.
@zebulonmysterioso this has been confirmed by Ukrainians themselves as well.
The original demands Russia had was for Ukraine to stay neutral and actually given autonomy to Donbas as was agreed in Minsk 1 and 2.
Ukraine would've been whole, and hundreds of thousands people wouldn't have died.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/11/24/7430282/
https://www.aaronmate.net/p/ukraines-top-negotiator-confirms
@yogthos Much for me to read about then, thank you!