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@immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle no. Real currencies have value because they are enforced by governments that have judicial systems, police forces and armies. You need US dollars for example in the USA because they're the only way to pay US taxes, and you can be at the last resort, physically arrested for refusing to pay.
@rvkennedy @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle
False. The USD is used all over the world because people trust that it will have a STABLE value, at least in the near future.
And it has a stable value because it has a central bank (the Fed) with the mission and means to keep its value stable, minus the planned inflation.
Without guns.
In short, people trust the USD because they trust the Fed. Even those who do not know what the Fed does, or think it is the abode of the Devil.
@JorgeStolfi @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle Sorry, but no. Worldwide trust of the USD is a second-order effect. At the bottom of it is the stability of the US government, and its ability to enforce the use of its currency in its borders. Your saying "people trust the USD because they trust the Fed" leads to the question, "why do people trust the Fed can do what it intends?" Which leads to "because the US govt and all its apparatus of state backs it up." Which leads to my point above.
@rvkennedy @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle
Some countries have laws that prohibit the use of other national currencies in commerce. But not the US. Americans (like people everywhere else) use the USD because they trust it, not because they are forced to use it.
But yes, people trust the Fed because they trust that the US government will give it the resources it needs to do its job, and will not try to use it to "print money" for its budget.
@JorgeStolfi @rvkennedy @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle The law may not require it for commercial transactions, but I doubt very much the law allows me to pay my obligations to the United States in anything other than USD
@prestontumber @rvkennedy @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle
Actually, Florida and a couple of cities in the US tried to allow people to pay their taxes in bitcoin. Seems it was the idea of city officials who (like Joel Greenberg) happened to be bitcoin investors and/or users of its money laundering properties. And then there is El Salvador.
However, those initiatives mostly failed, for lack of interest and/or because bitcoin, as a currency, is a bad joke.
@JorgeStolfi @rvkennedy @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle Fascinating! I'd have to say as a voter, I'd be against any such legislation in the jurisdictions I vote in. Still, the unit of account used by those entities is ultimately USD, correct? Even if the actual exchange was theoretically in BTC?
@prestontumber @rvkennedy @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle
Using bitcoin as unit of account is like using "rubber band" as a unit of length. Only much worse.
Indeed, that is one of the reasons why it is the most laughable thing that has ever been proposed as money.
@JorgeStolfi @rvkennedy @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle agreed, definitely. I remember during the bubble phase of the scam it was widely asked "doesn't this skyrocketing price make it unsuitable as a currency" and getting laughable answers in response. Bitcoin is both money and investment! Definitely can't be that it is neither ;)
@JorgeStolfi @prestontumber @rvkennedy @immibis @pluralistic @funcrunch @kcoyle bitcoin is a financial, tech & oil oligarch weapon. It’s made volatile to eradicate on whims years of savings in dollars backed by people’s LABOUR.
Bitcoin separates money from human labor by devaluing labor, taking money out of circulation encouraging hoarding to not cash out or actually use it as CURRENCY. It replaces labor value with OIL prices & wastes oil to increase prices & threat. It is a hostage taking.
@JorgeStolfi @prestontumber @rvkennedy @immibis @funcrunch @kcoyle
But also because the value of BTC is - deliberately - extremely volatile. Any fixed-supply token is *necessarily* volatile, assuming variable demand. When demand goes up, so does the value, and when demand decreases, value goes down. This is why cryptos are all but useless as media of exchange and stores of value (hence the "pizza day" observance).
@JorgeStolfi @prestontumber @rvkennedy @immibis @funcrunch @kcoyle
A city that needs to settle its own liabilities in dollars, and which accepts cryptos for tax liabilities, can end up with far less than it budgeted for if those tokens fall.
By contrast, a taxpayer who settles city tax in crypto could end up vastly *overpaying* their tax.
There is not - and will never be - an economy that runs on cryptos.
@pluralistic @JorgeStolfi @rvkennedy @immibis @funcrunch @kcoyle I feel like this is also one of the stronger arguments in *favor* of the concept of fiat currency vs 'traditional' currencies. I don't like the idea of someone digging up a bunch more dollars and suddenly the currency goes crazy. At least when Central Banks do it there is a *purpose* to it, not the vagaries of chance.