Recent searches
Search options
Administered by:
Y'know how I like nuance and am skeptical of simple narratives?
Well, I have a bugbear regarding the discussion on pedestrian fatalities in the US.
To start this thread, I'd like to think I have an unbiased perspective here. I don't drive a very large vehicle, I loathe the arms race in vehicle size, and I welcome all efforts to reduce car-dependence and make our streets safer for all.
But... every discussion I listen to on this topic is real handwavey on the impacts of distracted driving.
The sudden reversal in reduction in pedestrian deaths coincides not only with increase in vehicle size, but the prevalence of the smartphone.
Anybody who drives and gives the remotest shit about being a safe driver will have noticed how many other folks are holding their phones and looking at them while driving 40+ miles per hour, and I really feel like this can't be dismissed as a factor. But seemingly nobody talks about this as meaningful.
I'd like to see someone suss out the data on the number of pedestrian collisions that are occurring over time, but I can't find it easily.
Deaths are obviously going up, and I'm not arguing that a larger car isn't more dangerous to pedestrians and other road users (they most certainly are).
But... I'm almost certain pedestrian impacts have gone up, making you more likely to be hit in the first place. That's important and that matters to the discussion.
That's what I really want to know.
Are people getting *hit* more often? I'm almost certain the answer is yes.
There are plenty of other things we're uniquely bad at, too - road design, licensing requirements, lack of regulations. So by no means am I saying that I feel smartphones are the primary issue here, and I also don't want to make this a personal responsibility thing.
But I'm really weirded out by how this one very much so personal responsibility aspect is just... completely ignored.
@TechConnectify I agree with you FWIW.
But I'm kind of confused why you see distracted driving as "more personal responsibility" than vehicle size, driving speed or just the choice to drive at all.
@Merovius ... I don't know why you think that's what I think.
But I am saying if you can't drive your car without putting your phone away and not looking at it, you shouldn't be on the roads. Yet those people very much are.
@TechConnectify The post I was responding to seemed framed in terms of personal responsibility.
@TechConnectify (just to explain why I thought that. Genuinely not trying to argue with you what you meant or anything :) )
@Merovius to be clear, driving while using your smartphone is absolutely a personal responsibility thing.
That does not mean I think we can solve pedestrian deaths by attacking that issue alone, nor do I think personal responsibility as a solution is viable.
I just really dislike people ignoring this factor. Correlation ain't causation, no, but we had big vehicles before the smartphone yet deaths started rising right when smartphones became prevalent.
@TechConnectify You know, you're not the first person I've seen talking about distracted driving, and yet I've never known a single person who actually uses their phone in a manner that I would consider reckless. If the issue of distracted driving is so big, why is it always someone else who's doing it?
It seems to me that distracted driving either isn't as big of an issue as you're making it out to be, or isn't as straightforward as you're making it out to be (which would be ironic given you're presenting yourself here as the reasonable nuance guy).
@diligentcircle I see it all the goddamn time. Other drivers just checking their phone while in motion. To be fair, usually it's at lights or other lower-risk situations. But it's still awful, and I'm surprised you don't know anybody who complains about this.
@diligentcircle also, having read through your other replies... I'm not sure you've understood what I meant. You're not engaging with my question, just going on about how I drive what is to you a really big car.
@TechConnectify I understood you just fine, but you're claiming to be an objective and unbiased source, and you simply aren't. As for why I'm not "engaging with the question", I did respond to your claim that distracted driving is somehow a huge deal, which is the closest thing to a point you have. Really, your whole thread is just a bunch of whataboutism that reads to me like you really don't like the idea that your preference for large vehicles could be a part of a widespread problem.
@diligentcircle I'm surprised you think I'm trying to go for whataboutism here.
You think that my assessment of my car as "not that big" is fundamentally incorrect. We can disagree there (though fwiw "crossover" is a nebulous term and my car has about the same footprint of a Camry; it's just a hair taller and boxier) but please don't pretend to know my motivations.
@TechConnectify Your original thread is literally premised on a foundation of, "people talk about car size, but what about these other factors like distracted driving" (with a minor mention of other factors like street design). That's the definition of whataboutism.
As for the size of your car, I only mentioned it because you brought it up as a justification for claiming that you have, and I'm quoting, "an unbiased perspective here", which simply isn't true.
@diligentcircle okay, I'll concede in that sense that this is whataboutism - but I'm not in any way whatsoever trying to say that size doesn't matter. That's how I usually understand whataboutism to function—a means to dismiss other concerns.
I genuinely just want to know if and how distracted driving plays into this. The reversal of the downward trend in fatalities happens right when smartphones became a part of our daily lives, and F-150s, Suburbans, Pilots, etc. were popular long before then
@diligentcircle and if you mean I can't have an unbiased perspective because everyone has biases, sure.
If you genuinely think the Ioniq 5 is of a problematic size... well I can't imagine you've been in one. It's noticeably shorter than, say, a CR-V or Equinox. It's basically a wagon.
But whatever, I don't care if you think it's unreasonably large.
@TechConnectify I don't have any data on distracted driving either, but if you stop thinking of it as a nebulous other of "bad drivers" doing it, the most prevalent cause of distracted driving is GPS navigation. In the vast majority of cases where I've seen someone that I actually know holding a cell phone, that's what it was for: helping figure out how to get somewhere.
@TechConnectify Viewed from that perspective, I don't see how putting extra focus on distracted driving as a cause of accidents is all that helpful. I would contend that cars, and more importantly, streets, should be designed to deal with a certain amount of distracted driving, because ultimately, humans are humans and make human mistakes. You can't solve that by telling drivers not to get distracted as if they're children who don't know self-control.
@TechConnectify Of course, I would also contend that this is more rather proof that cars are a bad system in general (mass transit, walking, and bicycles beat cars every time in my book), but that's neither here nor there.
