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Kawaoneechan

@prahou I use bgcolor on my website's front page... entirely on purpose!

Jan 15, 2025, 08:30 PM·Public·Web
0boosts·2favorites
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᠎

@prahou @kawa oh, i added bgcolor and color precisely to make my site render on older browsers, too! generally it remains readable on anything that supports the Host HTTP header (shame on you Netscape 2.0 and lower)

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Kawaoneechan

@domi @prahou I tested mine on NCSA Mosaic. The colored ASCII art on the bottom of the page broke, but *gracefully*.

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wyatt
@kawa @prahou hmm, i should up my game on my site
it reads fine in links2 but it's rather plain.
Is there a way i can have html attributes that are overridden by CSS if available?
Otherwise I still can probably make it work by using a background image that's solid and one pixel for the "themes" that don't have one currently, but meh
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Tomáš

@wyatt @kawa

For now check out these for example: deadnet.se/ Apart for the animated bits it looks mostly the way it does in bloat-browser rendition.

@getimiskon 's website looks genuinely nice in links. getimiskon.xyz

...

I am planning to release an article `making websites specifically with links in mind' soon/eventually

deadnet.seDeadnet Internet Services
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gettie (:neogettie_floof: arc) :OwOid: :verified_neko: :neocat_flag_ace: :neocat_flag_nb:
@prahou i'm glad i was mentioned, because i made my last redesign specifically to look nice both on Links and on contemporary web browsers.
The tip is to use "deprecated" HTML tags. Sometimes they work much better than CSS, specifically when it comes to centering stuff.
@wyatt @kawa
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Tomáš

@getimiskon @kawa @wyatt

Yeah... you're not getting a youtube play button for valid html from the Big-W3, if you want your website to looks nice in links...

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gettie (:neogettie_floof: arc) :OwOid: :verified_neko: :neocat_flag_ace: :neocat_flag_nb:
@prahou i don't care what a validator says anymore (except from the bug meter in dillo, that's neat). If it works well on the browsers i put my pages at, it's fine.
It's so sad that most websites look plain on Links, while it's perfectly capable of displaying nice pages with a bit of effort.
@kawa @wyatt
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Kawaoneechan

@prahou @getimiskon @wyatt You can however get a "Classic HTML, Sane and Simple" button from me, for what it's worth! Just follow these simple steps:

helmet.kafuka.org/sanehtml.md

(May not include actual steps.)

helmet.kafuka.orgKawa's HTML ManifestoAn argument against bloat
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gettie (:neogettie_floof: arc) :OwOid: :verified_neko: :neocat_flag_ace: :neocat_flag_nb:
@kawa @prahou @wyatt that's neat, i didn't know about it
(although reading about it, i realized my website isn't sane :neocat_googly_woozy:)
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void

@getimiskon @kawa @prahou @wyatt
For them to be comparable, css should have a way to actually center a div inside a div(it doesn't).

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gettie (:neogettie_floof: arc) :OwOid: :verified_neko: :neocat_flag_ace: :neocat_flag_nb:
@void @kawa @prahou @wyatt
Centering stuff with CSS feels like a hack, and those who say that <center> is deprecated and CSS is better are lying. That's my opinion at least.
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void

@getimiskon @kawa @prahou @wyatt
I have been making websites for money(i won't call myself w slur) for 3-4 months and i actually have issues with vertical centering in every single div i make that has to look it is properly centered.
This isn't a 'new web bad' post, there is not proper way to vertically center 2 divs inside a div. you put 2 divs inside another div and center that div(inside the actual div you want to center the 2 divs in) and it... doesn't.
I just want to rant a bit, sory.

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Kawaoneechan

@void Did you mean horizontal? Like in the middle between the left and right edges?

Vertical centering, between the top and bottom edge, has always been a shitshow.

Or I'm just too distracted and confused and I'm the one mixing them up.

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void

@kawa
Vertical centering is simply impossible and not a real thing in html, you can't 'vertically center' anything. And i was talking about that in my post.
Anyone that says they can vertically center text inside a div reliably just talks off of theory soo they are a techbro.
Horizontal centering is also not real but not to the degree vertical centering is. Things can be easily made to look horizontally center in a div.

(i hate html soo much it is leaking out, sorry. Nice site btw)

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gettie (:neogettie_floof: arc) :OwOid: :verified_neko: :neocat_flag_ace: :neocat_flag_nb:
@void i get it, it sounds painful. It's ridiculous that an issue that's already solved in the past stays unsolved without a reason.
@kawa @prahou @wyatt
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wyatt
@prahou @kawa @getimiskon There are some little things i know i can do without breaking anything in CSS for sure, like using <center> tags
Maybe i'll poke around with that for a little bit tonight.
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wyatt
@prahou @kawa @getimiskon one problem though is that i currently have a "print view" button which basically strips all styling off the page which only works because of CSS and some clever symbolic linking. If i use things to make it look nice in links it's going to make the CSS much, much more elabourate and opinionated for the "print view" to compensate (right now it basically does nearly nothing to the page)
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wyatt

@prahou @kawa @getimiskon (update again: i guess i can use “inherit” in the CSS for a lot of stuff to override the in-HTML attributes. e.g. body { background-color: inherit; } and <body bgcolor="#000021"></body>, which makes it use the browser’s default background color)

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gettie (:neogettie_floof: arc) :OwOid: :verified_neko: :neocat_flag_ace: :neocat_flag_nb:
@wyatt didn't know inherit could be used in that case. I'll keep it in mind.
In my website, in order not to have issues with issues with CSS (like breaking the transparency effect in some areas), i wrote some stuff as classes for newer browsers as well as using plain HTML stuff for browsers like Links.
@kawa @prahou
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wyatt
@getimiskon @kawa @prahou yeah but my site is entirely hand-written in emacs, there's no static site generator even except for my own hands.
I've thought frequently about writing something in PHP to change that but it'd be more work than i feel like doing
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gettie (:neogettie_floof: arc) :OwOid: :verified_neko: :neocat_flag_ace: :neocat_flag_nb:
@wyatt i write my pages by hand in Emacs as well. Unless you need some specific server-side function, i think it's better not to write any PHP.
@kawa @prahou
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wyatt
@getimiskon @kawa @prahou oh, unless you mean like <a class="thingy">. maybe i could do that, although it'd be a *lot* of retrofitting since i'm already using classes in my css
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gettie (:neogettie_floof: arc) :OwOid: :verified_neko: :neocat_flag_ace: :neocat_flag_nb:
@wyatt exactly. For example, my tables use <table class="bg" bgcolor="..." /> etc. I think you get it.
@kawa @prahou
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Kawaoneechan

@wyatt Y'know what, I think CSS *can* override color attributes...

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