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I really hope y'all understand I'm trying to improve the experience here and in so doing make this a healthier and more attractive place to be.
I didn't want to be a squeaky wheel but you know what they say...
@TechConnectify have you filed any of this in the GitHub repo? Talked to Gargron about it?
@Pxtl @TechConnectify Still waiting on that call back from Mastodon Systems Incorporated customer service dept.
@JustinH @Pxtl okay, and I'm sorry for bringing the example I'm going to bring up, and feel free to feel less of me as a person.
When I would tag YouTube creators on Twitter and tell them I was having a problem, you know what would happen a lot? The human person tweeting at me would tell me "I appreciate your feedback! Please go fill out this form and make that feedback again."
And you know what this felt like? Passing off the problem to someone else.
@JustinH @Pxtl if you are going to insist that I need to file a GitHub repo or whatever the heck I'm supposed to do in order to get my problems believed or listened to, it's pretty maddening.
There are people listening to me, I am talking to you now, there are many, many other people who are seeing many, many other people express these problems.
I would hope that would be enough to get some balls rolling. Otherwise, this is maddeningly bureaucratic.
@JustinH @Pxtl let me put it another way. I don't use GitHub. I don't even really know much about what it is! I ran into it at one point in the past working on some 3D printing thing and from there it has been in my brain as a weird fiddly thing for nerds.
So. You are asking me to go into a space that I'm not familiar with and, with no agency at all, submit some form so that hopefully somebody somewhere else will understand what I'm saying and take action.
Do you understand the friction here?
@TechConnectify@mas.to @JustinH@twit.social @Pxtl@mastodon.social a lot of github devs HATE it when you just @ them outside of the repo and ask them to fix it. in the best of cases, they'll link you to the issue tracker (even if they're the only one editing the repo, which in a project as large as masto, they're not) and in the worst they'll get mad at you for not using the issue tracker.
the github issues board is how they organize and assign issues/features and gives a central place for all the developers and managers to see and respond to the issue. telling them to do something outside of the issues board is functionally useless to them.
most issue/bug report pages give you a form to fill out, and a lot of them make it very simple to submit one, and even if you don't have all the information required, they'd usually either be willing to help you or direct you towards the wiki pages.
best case scenario someone's already opened an issue and you can bump it by giving it a star.
@Jessica @JustinH @Pxtl I will grant that my frustration here likely comes from the fact that I actually worked in customer service roles for years. In the hospitality industry specifically. And in those roles, it was literally my job to make other people's problems my problem to solve.
That may very well be an unreasonable expectation for me to have in this circumstance, but to be honest it does feel pretty dehumanizing to be on the other side now and not see any of those principles.
@TechConnectify@mas.to @JustinH@twit.social @Pxtl@mastodon.social if you think about it from the aspects of the person writing the code, getting constant request to fix insert issue here rather than actual conversations on their personal account is really annoying to some people
it is a different situation when you're dealing with a company with a large group of people and a social media manager that can actually input your issue into an issue tracker, but devs do this because either they want to or because they use the product themselves.
there was a github user that completely left the FOSS world and dropped off the internet because people were basically following this guy around and spamming his other repos with issues about the one he closed the issue tracker on because people wouldn't read the wiki or bother to learn the basics by themselves. he ended up deleting the repo files.
@TechConnectify @Jessica @Pxtl I find it helpful to see myself as a contributor, not a customer. Even just "filling out the feedback form" is a contribution! That moves it from "dehumanizing" to "empowering" pretty quickly.
@TechConnectify@mas.to @JustinH@twit.social @Pxtl@mastodon.social I made my first github issue a year ago and they were receptive to the idea and we got into a convo on how it should be made, and it got implemented within a day or two.
it can never hurt to ask for a feature you might want. worst you can get is a "wont-fix" or immediate close.
@Jessica @TechConnectify @JustinH one cute thing with GH is it has a graph of days showing your contributions -- the usual gameification nonsense. And it treats issue management as a real contribution, not just pushing code.
Yes it treats code as the most important part, (because it is) but it still treats everything else as important and valid ways to help a project.
@Pxtl@mastodon.social @TechConnectify@mas.to @JustinH@twit.social there's nothing more important than the devs getting feedback on what features they want.
@TechConnectify @Jessica @Pxtl The real danger is that once you do change your perspective, you start growing your own vegetables and following Cory Doctorow around the country in a solar powered van.